Are you looking for your Irish ancestors in the right place?

Céad Míle Fáilte – and you are welcome to this week’s Letter from Ireland. How are things in your part of the world today? All is well here in County Cork – my only comment is that I can see how Ireland manages to stay so green given the amount of rain that has fallen over the past week! How are things in your part of the world today?

I’m having a cup of Lyons’ tea as I write, so do have a cup of whatever you fancy yourself as we start into today’s letter.

This week’s letter should be of interest to anyone tracing their Irish roots. We explore a frequent pitfall that trips up many family historians researching their Irish ancestors. We’ll share the story of one Green Room member who encountered a common mistake while tracking down her family’s Irish origins. I suggest how she can correct her course, and hope this will help others pinpoint their Irish ancestors’ true homeland in Ireland – not just where family lore suggests they came from. This case study focuses on a family that emigrated to America during the 1850s and the detective work needed to uncover their authentic Irish beginnings.

Do you know the REAL Origins of Your Irish Ancestors?

We often encounter Green Room members who present what they believe are “facts” about their Irish ancestors’ origins. While these appear to be facts, they sometimes seem unlikely when examined by an Irish genealogist. For example, a member might suggest that a couple was born in two different parts of rural Ireland, met and married in a third location, and then had children in yet another place hundreds of miles away.

While such a pattern is not unusual in today’s world of easy transport and work options, it raises a red flag given the reality of 19th century Ireland. Most Irish people of the time tended to meet and marry the children of their neighbours from the surrounding streets, villages and townlands. They then went on to have their own children, live and work among their extended families and neighbours in the same area. At least until economic necessity caused them to migrate to the nearest city or overseas.

So, when we receive such a set of “unlikely facts” we have to break the news gently to the member in question – and then help them to sort the “possibility” from the “unlikely” – testing the facts provided against available records.

Let’s take an example.

Joan from New York is a Green Room member who plans to visit Ireland in the near future. She hopes to visit the place where her Irish ancestors, the Ryans, once lived – but has she really discovered their correct place of origin in Ireland?

In this letter, we share the information that Joan presented. We look at ways of checking the likely origins for her Irish ancestors to provide her with some useful ideas and locations before her scheduled trip.

The Initial Story.

Joan: My name is Joan and my father’s mother’s line was “Ryan”. I live in Buffalo New York – but the Ryans came to Auburn, New York where I spent my earlier days.

Mike: Nice to meet you Joan! There are certainly many Ryan families in Ireland. It is probably the most numerous surname in the north of County Tipperary where it was originally anglicised as “Mulryan”.

Joan: My first Ryan ancestor to arrive in the USA was Timothy Ryan who was married to Winifred Egan. They both moved to Auburn, New York USA and died there around the 1900’s. Tim and Win had 8 children. One of them, Thomas, my great grandfather – came to America around 1862. I cannot find any ship record.

Mike: So, you are saying that Timothy and Winifred married in Ireland before travelling to the US. They also had at least one child in Ireland – Thomas – who travelled with them in 1862? At least, let’s proceed on that assumption.

Joan: Timothy Ryan was born in 1822 in Clonakilty, Cork. His father’s name was Denis Ryan and mother was Joan Donovan. Joan Donovan’s parents were Mathew Donovan of Cork and Ross. Mother’s name Margt Sarchfield.

Mike: Both Ryan and Donovan are surnames that are found in quantity in that part of County Cork. However, I wonder how you know that THIS Timothy from the Irish records was YOUR Timothy. Was it because of another record I don’t know about – or a family story?

Sarchfield is a variation on the surname “Sarsfield” – which is mostly found elsewhere in east Cork and County Limerick.

When the Family History “Facts” Just Don’t Add Up.

Joan: Tim and Win Egan lived in County Limerick by the time of Griffith’s Valuation of 1851 – in a place called Pallasgreen in the Parish of Templebredon.

Mike: Hmmm. This is beginning to sound a little unusual. Let me explain. There are MANY Ryan and Egan families across Limerick and Tipperary – and I am sure there are SOME Timothy and Winifred couples among them. However, it was unusual at the time for a Ryan born in county Cork to head to Limerick. I had a look at the families in Pallasgreen in 1851 and there were quite a few Ryan families already in that townland. This suggests that the Ryans of Pallasgreen were always in the area and did not come from County Cork.

Joan: I have a trip booked to Ireland later this year and will be in the Cork area. I want to see the land of my Irish ancestors – but I don’t know exactly where it is!

Mike: How nice for you to have that trip to Ireland lined up! However, I think we need to step back and examine just where in Ireland your Ryan ancestors originated for certain. Of course, it is difficult to question the history you always believed to be true in such a manner.

People often “jump” across to Irish records too soon. It is often much more useful to first dig deeper into the records in the place where your Irish ancestors immigrated.

How do we get things back on track?

I had a look for mention of your Ryan family in the US on Ancestry.com and noticed the extended Ryan family (including Timothy aged 75 and Winifred aged 65) in the 1892 New York census. I also noticed their son, Thomas – with his own young family in the 1875 New York census. That is the earliest record I could find. Maybe you can provide a pointer to earlier records? I also noticed that several people on Ancestry.com had your Ryan family in their tree – but almost all of these trees were suspect and with few reliable sources referenced.

So, here are some outstanding questions we need to answer before moving forward – to figure out just where in Ireland your Ryan family DEFINITELY originated:

What is the earliest record of Timothy, Winifred and family in the US? Families were often surrounded by family and neighbours from Ireland following their arrival in the US. I notice, for example, that Timothy and Winifred have a William Ryan (aged 80) living with them in 1892.
How do you know that Winifred Ryan’s maiden name is “Egan”? Do you have a record source that shows this? Egan is a very rare surname for County Cork. If her maiden name was Egan – and Winifred and Timothy met and married in Ireland – then it was probably outside County Cork.
What are the names of their children born in Ireland – from eldest to youngest? Irish naming patterns may help us to establish the likely names of the parents of Timothy and Winifred in Ireland.

Once we establish answers to each of the above, we then stand a better chance of eliminating the unlikely origins for your Ryan Irish ancestors – and focus on the more probable Irish locations. It is entirely possible that your Ryan ancestor moved from south County Cork to County Limerick to settle in the area with your Egan ancestor. It just sounds suspicious and needs verification before accepting it as a fact. I’d hate to have you head to Cork and realise a few years from now that your Irish ancestors roots are, in fact, in County Limerick or elsewhere!

I think you need to engage with our Green Room genealogists and share the records of your Irish ancestors you have in your possession at the moment so that we help you verify some of them.

Thank you to Joan for sharing her story and we really look forward to coming up with some definite places that she can add to her Irish trip itinerary.

That’s it for this week. As always, do feel free to leave a comment below if you would like share a story or the Irish ancestors in your family.

Slán for now,

Mike.